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ello, everyone, I had the chance to speak with Jonás Santana, a very good friend of mine who is the brand owner of Blackbird Cigars. Watch as we discuss Blackbird Cigars' Tasting Components Kit, available on Smokingpipes.

[Jonás Santana]: Well, Tyler, thank you so much for having me here first.

[Tyler Caldwell]: Always a pleasure meeting.

[JS]: I really love it too much. And also, everything that we have done together with Low Country Pipe. So, what I'm doing right here with the component tasting cigars, little cigars in this case, is I'm showing you what we do at the factory before we make a cigar. So the thing is, we need to define, what's the goal, right? Let's say we are going to make a cigar. In this case, when we were thinking about making the Finch, we said we wanted to make a cigar for the guys that really don't like the Connecticut cigars because of the bitterness of flavor.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: Some people like it, some people don't. So we say, okay, we need to make something that is creamy. We need to make something that people can have an option in the morning to smoke if they want to smoke and enjoy it at that time. Maybe the last cigar, maybe it's a beginner, or maybe it's just a mild smoker in particular. The final cigar must have cinnamon flavors, must have a white pepper finish, must be creamy, and the strength has to be mild.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: So, I want you to line up the first cigar.

[TC]: You got it.

[JS]: We are going to do just the fillers of the cigar. Over there, you're going to have Criollo '98, Viso and Seco, and also you're going to have Pennsylvania tobacco. So, while you're trying that cigar, remember that what we're trying to aim for has to be creamy, gentle, and have flavors of white pepper, cinnamon, and nutty flavors.

[TC]: Mm.

[JS]: We need to get there. So, before we make a premium cigar, what things do you think we need to define to reach the goal, in this case, having the blend, the Finch blend? What do we need to define?

[TC]: Well, I would imagine, outside of flavor, you want to get good combustion.

[JS]: Okay.

[TC]: You want to get good construction. You want to have a nice even burn all the way through the cigar to go along with the flavors that you're going to get with that.

[JS]: Okay, so we need to define. To help you a little bit with that, we need to define the flavors, strength, and how complex we want it to be. I guess a morning smoke does not need to be so complex.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: It needs to be an easy cigar to pick, something that if you need to drive an hour to work or 30 minutes, it's easy for you, right? So we need to define, but what else? What else do you think we need to define?

[TC]: I mean, to me, when it comes to making a cigar, those would be my focal points to go through.

[JS]: I think a key word here is how balanced we want the cigar too.

[TC]: Balance, yes.

[JS]: Need to define that. Right now, when you're smoking the cigar, and to be honest, are you feeling the final cigar, with cinnamon, nutty, and gentle, white pepper? Are you feeling creaminess? I'm going to line it up with you right now.

[TC]: Right off the bat, with just the fillers, I mean, I can get the nuttiness. I can get the creaminess, definitely.

[JS]: Okay, but are you getting everything that I'm telling you?

[TC]: A little hint of cinnamon, especially on the retro, but as far as I'm into it right now, I'm definitely getting like the creaminess and the nuttiness, mostly.

[JS]: Okay. Something that I can tell you, and for the people watching, is that most of the time when the people ask you something in the cigar industry, do you feel chocolate? Most of the time, psychologically, you're going to say yes.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: But right now, I probably feel some of it, but I'm not really getting the creaminess. I'm not really getting the pepper, the gentle, white pepper. I'm getting that the cigar is incomplete.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: It's not defined. It's not getting to the balanced spot. Keep smoking it.

[TC]: Mhm.

[JS]: I don't feel creaminess. I feel something trying to be creamy, but not creamy. Can you agree with me on that?

[TC]: Yeah, I could see that.

[JS]: So, for the people, I want to ask them, maybe you answer for them, so they can understand why we need to play with the tobacco and how. What's the difference between Seco, Viso, and Ligero? For Seco, when you see the plant, the Seco tobacco is at the bottom. The Viso's in the middle. The Ligero tobacco is on top. So with Seco, most of the time, it helps you with the combustion of the cigar. It does not have the same oils as the top of the leaf, which is the Ligero. It will get more sunlight. The leaf is going to be thicker, so you're going to get more of it. The Ligero will give you strength. The Seco will provide better combustion, and the aroma, but the Viso will probably give you more flavors.

[TC]: Mm.

[JS]: That's how you combine everything. So right here, just to let you know, there's no Ligero. We only have Viso and Seco.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: Criollo '98 is well known for being earthy. It can impart a little bit of strength, but in this case, I'm only using Seco and Viso of Criollo, so it's not really bringing too much. You're probably going to get a little bit of the earthy flavor, more dominance, because we haven't finished the cigar. The Pennsylvania seed that we're using here gives the cigar strength. So I'm using Viso because I'm not looking for a strong cigar. I'm looking for something between mild and medium. Do you agree with that?

[TC]: I agree, absolutely.

[JS]: Any questions for now?

[TC]: At the moment, no. I'm just enjoying listening and learning.

[JS]: So, let's jump to the next cigar.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: We start blending the cigars aiming to achieve the final cigar that I explained to you in the beginning, and we started trying out with our smoking panel over there. So let's light up cigar number two, where you're going to get Criollo '98, Seco, and Viso in the filler, and you're also going to get Pennsylvania Viso, but now we are adding something where you're probably going to get more cinnamon, which is what the Sumatra will give you. Let's see. Let's try it out, my man. And so, just so you don't have any confusion, we have no binder here, but we use the Pennsylvania seed as a binder because we need to roll the cigars, otherwise we won't be able to have something like this because the binder will help the filler to stay together. So let's see.

[TC]: It's already completely different.

[JS]: You're getting everything more refined.

[TC]: Yeah, absolutely.

[JS]: Okay let me light that one.

[TC]: The cinnamon is coming through, absolutely. And you can taste that Sumatra-style tobacco to go with it.

[JS]: Okay. So literally, we just added one more leaf, and it really made the difference. But also, something that you guys need to know, the only leaf that your mouth touches or your lips touch is the wrapper, or in this case, the binder. So your brain is going to pick up more of that at the moment. So let's keep smoking it.

[TC]: Mhm. Will do.

[JS]: I'm not going to lie, even cigar number one was good, but it was not the final cigar.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: That's not what we were aiming for. Now I can feel more of the gentle pepper, I can feel a little bit more of the cinnamon because, of course, the Sumatra. This is grown in Ecuador, in this case. Just to let you know, Ecuador is the best country to grow for wrapper because of the soil and the climate.

[TC]: Very interesting.

[JS]: So, I want to tell the audience, of course, how important it is to have an even burn. I think that's very important, right?

[TC]: Yeah.

[JS]: Every time you're at the shop and somebody says, "Oh, this is not burning the right way," but they don't really understand, that's why we're here, because we make cigars to put people's smiles on their faces. We need to make it even better. Why do you think it's very important, Tyler?

[TC]: I would have to say the binder.

[JS]: The binder will play a role to help with that.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: So, it is important to have an even burn because you need all the tobacco to be burning at the same time. This is not liquid like this coffee right here. So, in order for you to experience the blend, and experience the smoke, we are trying to give you the same experience as when all the leaves are burning at the same time. So, have you seen cigars with a pyramid shape when you gently tap the ash?

[TC]: Mhm.

[JS]: If you do it too much, it won't happen, but if you are gentle, you have the pyramid, okay. How do you think we can do that pyramid shape? It's because we have an even burn. So the reason is, as I explained at the beginning, you have Seco, Viso, and Ligero. In this case, this one does not have Ligero, but it has Viso. So, as for the pyramid shape, you're going to see it more from Maduro cigars. The thing is, the Ligero on top is thicker, with more oils. So that means it's a lazy burner. Seco helps with the combustion because it's thinner. So, I typically ask the question like this: if we are going to make a cigar with an even burn, which one would you put in the middle? Would you put the Seco tobacco in the middle and the Ligero tobacco around it, or would we put the Ligero in the middle and the Seco around it? What would you do?

[TC]: I would imagine the Seco around it.

[JS]: Well, I think you won a cigar from me, my man, and another hat. So yes, sir, you need the Seco tobacco around the Ligero because that one will help the Ligero tobacco to continue burning. That's why you get the pyramid shape because this is burning on the side, and it's helping the Ligero tobacco burn at the same time. So that's how you need to have it. Something else is, I can see that we have a good draw here. Why do you think we need a perfect draw?

[TC]: To make sure everything burns evenly.

[JS]: That will help too. But the thing is, when the draw is too tight, it's going to turn bitter, and eventually it's going to plug because all the nicotine is going to come to the tip. If it's too loose, also, you're going to smoke faster, and the heat is going to go up, and the cigar's going to turn to trash. Like I always say, if you're going to pay for a cigar, that means you're going to burn your money. Please just burn it right.

[TC]: Absolutely. And I have to say, with the binder added, the smoke ability, like the draw from it, has just changed dramatically from just the fillers too. So you can tell the difference from number one to number two. Just the draw, and the amount of smoke you get from it, it's already impressive.

[JS]: Amazing. So, we're going to let everyone keep smoking the cigar while we give you just a little bit of short information about Blackbird.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: When we started in the industry, we thought, okay, there's a lot of mainstream brands, with years and years and years of experience. So I figured, okay, what is the strongest bird on the planet? Which one is the strongest one?

[TC]: The strongest bird? I have no idea.

[JS]: Well, the strongest is the bald eagle.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: And which one is the smartest?

[TC]: Bald eagle?

[JS]: The smartest is the crow.

[TC]: The crow, okay, that makes sense.

[JS]: I was wondering, how do I play smart against a bunch of eagles? And don't get me wrong, when I say eagles to the mainstream brands, it's in a respectful way. They made it, and I respect whatever they have done, but, of course, everything changes. We are trying to bring something more fresh to the customers, something more for the new generation of cigar smokers. There's new people every 10 years getting in, and I want them to feel welcome.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: No matter how you dress, no matter how you look, it doesn't matter. We just want to enjoy everything as a family. So that's why we created cigars for every time of the day, from morning to mid morning to lunch to dusk to the cigars of the night, which is the Crow and the Cuco. So, right now, what I want you to do is, in order for us to really appreciate the components or let's say the tasting notes of the tobacco, is by doing this at the factory. I want you to pull from the cigar, big pull, and I want you to throw it to the left.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: And then remember what you felt and do the same thing and throw it to the right.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: Please do.

[TC]: You can perceive from the smoke a thick mouthfeel.

[JS]: Mhm. For me, because every person is different, whatever cigar you're going to like, probably I won't, whatever cigar I like, probably you don't. So when you pull from the cigar and you throw it to the right, in my case, I felt more strength and pepper.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: When I pull it up and throw it to the left, I felt more creaminess, more of the floral, and more of the cinnamon.

[TC]: I can see that.

[JS]: Do it again, just in case. Right now, we are playing with our gums, and we're also playing with our brain, at the same time. So, in order, before we go to the third cigar, which is the final cigar, we also need to see the difference. We are trying to get, remember, gentle, white pepper. Let's do retro to see if it's gentle, and we're going to compare it to the third cigar. Right now, I feel the pepper.

[TC]: Oh, I feel my nose hairs.

[JS]: And I can feel that it's a little earthy.

[TC]: Yeah.

[JS]: But I don't want to taste earth. That's not what I'm looking for. Even if you like it, that's not wrong. But remember, it's a product that we want to get. It's supposed to be gentle, white pepper, something beautiful, something floral, maybe a little bit of cinnamon in the retro, but you are not supposed to feel the earthiness. But right now, we have the Criollo '98 that is dominant in the earthy flavors, and we only add one layer, which is the binder. So we need to add another one in order to get there, something else to feel creaminess. Let's do it like this where we breathe out slowly upward. Either you're going to feel creamy or it's going to dry your mouth.

[TC]: Mm.

[JS]: Try it out. We'll drink a little bit of the coffee.

[TC]: I can get the creaminess, like a milky creaminess to go with it.

[JS]: That's what we're trying to get. Any questions for now?

[TC]: No, sir.

[JS]: I can see it in your face that you are paying attention to this, which I feel happy about.

[TC]: I am very intrigued.

[JS]: Okay, so now, let's light up cigar number three. And remember, what we're trying to get is a cigar: creamy, gentle, with white pepper in the retrohale. We want to try to get cinnamon, nutty flavors, something easy, with no bitterness at all because we make this for the guys that don't typically smoke Connecticut cigars. Let's see if we get that. We added another layer, which is the wrapper. It's another Sumatra Ecuadorian wrapper. So, I told you, Sumatra will give you more of the cinnamon flavors. So we added two. Let's see.

[TC]: Wow. It's amazing when you get to the final product, just to see how it all blends together so well, and definitely the cinnamon, right?

[JS]: I don't feel earthiness like I used to.

[TC]: No.

[JS]: We just added one wrapper. That's it. I can even see that in the first puff, it's already burning differently because now everything is together. Everything is properly made. You have all the tobacco that you're supposed to have to make a cigar. In this case, it will be a Short Corona, okay? So, I want you to retrohale.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: So, retrohale. And now, remember,and I want you to smell the coffee, as much as you can. If you have coffee at home, please do it too.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: Keep smelling it. And now what we're going to do is we're going to retrohale again. Tell me if you feel any difference.

[TC]: It's almost like I can taste the coffee to go with that cinnamon and earthiness.

[JS]: You feel the coffee, and feel the flavors even more intensely. It's kind of like you just light up the cigar again. The coffee helps with that. Remember every time you go to Macy's or whatever and you're trying to get a cologne, what do they give you to smell?

[TC]: They make you smell the coffee, or coffee beans.

[JS]: So we do the same trick with cigars. It's like we renovated. So in this case now, let's play a little game. Throw the smoke to the left and remember. Then to the right, and remember, to see if it's different from cigar number two. Ooh, I'm feeling it on my left. I don't know about you guys. On the left, I feel the creaminess being more intense. The smoke is more dense on my left. Over here, on the right, I'm getting the white pepper with the cinnamon taste. I don't know if you've got the same, Tyler.

[TC]: You're spot on. I mean, coming out on this side, like the intensity of the cinnamon is incredible. And like you said on this side, like I got that hint of the creaminess, but on this side, that cinnamon is just wow.

[JS]: And let's see. Let's feel more of the creaminess like this. You could even see the smoke. It's more dense, more white. And I feel way less dry than cigar number one and cigar number two.

[TC]: Absolutely, it very much has an umami, mouthwatering feel to it.

[JS]: I've got a question for the audience, but you're going to help me respond.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: Why do you think the ash is white?

[TC]: I was always under the impression that it's because of the soil where it grows.

[JS]: The soil, yes, but there's something in it to make it white: calcium.

[TC]: Calcium, okay.

[JS]: Every time you smoke a San Andrés cigar, it's very white, and that's because of the soil and the area that they grow. There's a lot of calcium over there. That's why you get the white ash. In this case, I don't see too much. The soil didn't have too much calcium because you can see a kind of gray, but that's the type of tobacco where the Sumatra was grown in Ecuador, in the land and the fields that they used. But in the other case, you will typically see a lot of white in the San Andrés.

[TC]: Sure.

[JS]: Any questions, Tyler?

[TC]: Man, I'm just here to listen

[JS]: Well, you keep enjoying the cigar.

[TC]: Yeah.

[JS]: Something that we like to do as a brand is we like to put things easy for the customers. As you can see, all of my bands are kind of big, but we put a bird right here. So as soon as you're ready to take off the band, just pull off the bird, and it's going to come out easily and you're not going to damage the wrapper.

[TC]: Easy peasy.

[JS]: So, now, over there, if you have bourbon, if you have whiskey, if you have tequila, whatever drink that you prefer, even coffee, let's have a try of the coffee. Let's give it a sip. Let's enjoy it. And let's see what happens when we throw the smoke in the coffee.

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: And hold it. If you give it a little shake, you can do it with bourbon. You can do it with whiskey. You can do any drink you prefer. Do that, let it breathe. Okay?

[TC]: Okay.

[JS]: I'm going to have a taste of mine.

[TC]: Mm. You can taste the cigar in the coffee.

[JS]: And in some way, it mellows out the coffee taste.

[TC]: Yeah.

[JS]: If you're at home, or you have bourbon or whiskey, it will downplay the alcohol taste. So it's going to be smooth.

[TC]: Mm.

[JS]: What I'm trying to explain to you, while we do the component tasting, is that the cigar does not need to be boring. And there's different ways to enjoy the same cigar over and over again by doing these little tricks.

[TC]: Wow.

[JS]: Throw your smoke to the left, throw it to the right. Through the retro, you smell the bourbon, and then you retro, smell it again, and retro. You're going to have a different experience. It's like lighting up the cigar again and again and again, and your palate is going to be fresh.

[TC]: Mm.

[JS]: Especially the whiskey flavors will be enhanced. Whiskey or bourbon, those hard liquors, will have enhanced flavors. You're going to get even more, even more than the coffee in this case. This will kind of clean your palate. But in the case of the whiskey, bourbon, things like that, it will clean the palate a little bit, but it's going to get more. Your senses are going to be altered and get more of what you're getting from the smoke of the cigar.

[TC]: Absolutely. I got to say with this coffee and everything you're teaching me here, I've smoked the Finch multiple times and it's a nice, smooth, milder smoke, but with everything going on right now, it's a much fuller flavor from the Finch than I've ever gotten before. So it's very interesting.

[JS]: I'm glad to be here, man. Do you have any questions?

[TC]: No, sir.

[JS]: No? Okay, so, let's see, I'm going to keep enjoying it. I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to keep enjoying this cigar to see if there's any other questions that might come to mind.

[TC]: Make sure you check out Blackbird Cigars on Smokingpipes.com, because you guys are not going to want to miss these cigars, that's for sure.

[JS]: Something that, you know, most of the time when I do interviews, people ask me, "Hey, how did you start with Blackbird?" But, you know, one question that I would like to ask more is why do we exist?

[TC]: Yes.

[JS]: Companies are created because there is a need. So let's say a spread of cigars, I think, there's no need because there's very good and great cigars out there.

[TC]: True.

[JS]: But why I think we exist is because we care. And when we make a cigar for people, we want them to smile. So, it's very motivational with our slogan, which is, "Can't clip my wings, and don't let anybody break your dreams." When you conquer your dreams or you're trying to achieve your dreams, I want you to smoke Blackbird to celebrate those dreams or whatever you're doing to feel better for you or for your family, for the ones you love, and the things you care about. If you call me, and tell me, "Hey, I'm having a problem with so and so," you're going to get a resolved problem within minutes.

[TC]: That's right.

[JS]: So we care about people. It's not only about money. I think the side effect of being successful is money because there's no other way to measure success. However, in this case, we care about the consumers. When they buy our cigars, I want them to repeat because they feel happy about it.

[TC]: Absolutely.

[JS]: Not because we force them to do it. And I think everybody wins while you here at Smokingpipes distribute our cigars. You guys, I think, are the best ambassadors, I always say. Whoever is working at the retailer is my ambassador because they're the ones suggesting the cigar to the consumers, which we hope we get the support from them.

[TC]: I'll cheers to that.

[JS]: Cheers to that, brother. I'm so happy to be here.

[TC]: That's right. Glad you're here. So, Jonás, I really want to thank you for coming here today. You have taught me so much about cigars that I didn't even know. And everyone out there, make sure you check out Blackbird Cigars on Smokingpipes.com. I hope that when you watch this video and you participate with the component kit that you learn a lot as well, and we can't wait to hear some feedback from our customers out there. And thank you so much for watching.