We're here today with a very special guest: Erik Stokkebye. Join us for a roundtable discussion of what's going on with Erik and the 4th Generation brand, his collaborations with Cornell & Diehl, and hear some interesting insights into his life growing up in the tobacco industry.

[Shane Ireland]: We're happy to spend some time chatting today.

[Erik Stokkebye]: Yeah, it's good to be here.

Fathers, Friends & Fire Tobaccos & Pipes

I'm smoking the Fathers, Friends & Fire Batch 003 Sweet Aromatic. I haven't smoked this in a long time, but it's a damn good blend.

[SI]: It smells very good too.

[ES]: Oh, yeah. It has some good character and it's well balanced. I really like it. What are you guys smoking of the Fathers, Friends & Fire?

[Steve Mawby]: I'm smoking the Batch 001 Virginia Oriental.

[Andy Wike]: Yeah, that's what I'm smoking too. It's very good. I always love this archetype; naturally sweet Virginias and Oriental.

[SM]: It's a great combination. This is really well balanced between the two.

[AW]: Especially in the morning, It's a nice, softer smoke to ease into the day.

[SM]: And it goes well with coffee.

[SI]: The Fathers, Friends & Fire series was the first non-limited-edition project that you and Jeremy Reeves developed together, Erik, right?

[ES]: I think it was, yes.

[SI]: There have been a handful of limited editions.

[ES]: Right, and we also created the Fathers, Friends & Fire pipes about 10 years ago. Then, a few years ago, I thought about creating a line of tobacco with it, and then I mentioned it to Jeremy and he said, yeah, absolutely. They're all really good and they're doing well.

[SI]: We're missing one of 'em here because it's out of stock. That's usually a good sign. But there is more in production. Don't worry.

4th Generation Brand Supporting the Full Experience

[SM]: That's one of the things that I love about the 4th Generation brand. You make pipes, tobacco, and accessories, so covering the entire pipe-smoking experience, pretty much. There's not a lot of brands out there that do all of those things and take them all seriously with creativity and good quality.

[AW]: And do them well.

[SI]: It's a bygone era where all of those house brands that started as shops had a very robust pipe and tobacco line, such as Astley's, Dunhill, Fribourg & Treyer, and Rattray's. With consolidation over the last many decades, you just don't see it too much anymore, except for some of those heritage brands.

[ES]: Yes, exactly. I felt it was important to have them both, when I started this brand, and the accessories under one name. In 2012 we introduced a line of tobaccos, and then soon after came the pipes from Peder Jeppesen at Neerup, and then, after that, about six months later, we had the line of accessories. It's been fun. It really has.

[SI]: I also appreciate that you're still doing the Fathers, Friends & Fire limited pipe series and the Pipe of the Year every year. I feel like that's another tradition that not many people carry forward. Same thing with the accessories. I've lost count, at this point, of how many fresh firsts that we've seen in the 4th Generation line on the accessories side of things, from the backpack and the messenger bags to the bigger leather goods and the pipe-tobacco humidor.

[SM]: It's fresh products, but also still throws a lot back to tradition.

Pipe-Tobacco Humidor

For example, with your pipe-tobacco humidor here, you were talking about how the design on the top of that is an old snuff can.

[ES]: It's an old, pure gold snuff can.

[SI]: That's so cool.

[ES]: It was my grandfather's and he gave it to me a long time ago. I think a local bishop in the town of Odense, Denmark, originally owned it. For some reason he gave it to my grandfather. The sign on that box's lid is basically designed here and it's quite beautiful. I was looking at it for a long time, and then thought, we should do something with this.

[SI]: It's gorgeous.

[SM]: Yeah, and you said you've got that design on a lighter?

[ES]: As a matter of fact, we have that right here. The limited-edition tin that we did last year as well was really cool. The idea came about a couple of years ago when I was at a PCA show and I was seeing all these cigar humidors. I thought having one for pipes would be unique. We had the first humidor in 2024, another last year, and then we're gonna have one coming out for 2026.

[SI]: When you were visiting in early 2024 when the first one came out, we were talking about it. It is remarkable that there's nothing else really like that on the market. You can go way back to when a pipe rack, a wooden tobacco jar, and all that kind of stuff was pretty ubiquitous to have on the desk or wherever. There's been mostly jars, pipe caddies, and stuff like that. But especially in the last half century, there's nothing like this. I really love the concept.

[ES]: It's fun to fool around with. The glasses are really nice and you can have a couple of pipe cleaners here and a tamper. It keeps the moisture really well with the Boveda packs.

Black Dot Bulk Tobacco

[SI]: We do have something else new: the bulk edition, which is Black Dot. Let's talk a little bit about the development of that and what you were envisioning to add to the bulk line.

[ES]: We do very well with Evening Flake, so I wanted to have something that was not quite the same but a little bit unusual as a cousin or sibling of it. We came up with this concept after spending some time in Denmark almost a year and a half ago at the factory, and I wanted to do something with Perique and something unique and different. I asked them about Red Virginia and they said, yeah, we have some in stock, and then we came up with Black Dot. It's coin cut. I think it's very mellow and has some really good character and balance to it.

[AW]: Those are beautiful.

[ES]: It's a hand-spun production, so it takes a while but I think they do a really good job.

[SI]: Production like that has to be a labor of love, right?

[ES]: It does. Exactly. I really like it and couldn't wait to put it on the market.

[SI]: Yeah, I'm anxious to see the reception once everybody starts getting their orders in their hands.

Max Erik's Blend

I know I told you this not terribly long after it was released, which was a couple years ago now, but I think I'm up to somewhere around 50 tins of Max Erik 1989 blend sitting in my closet.

[ES]: Oh, really?

[SM]: I'm putting together a pretty good collection too.

[SI]: It's a great everyday smoke. When I really don't feel like making a decision about anything, I'll just pop another tin. I've been going through those tins at a faster clip than I think I have for anything else in the last couple years.

[ES]: Yeah, when I did that, I ran out of grandfathers and great grandfathers, so I had to do something else within the family. I asked Max, do you mind if I use your name? And he said, no, and then I figured I should probably check with the company, Scandinavian Tobacco Group. They thought it was a fun idea. Maybe the next one will be on our daughter, Anna.

[SI]: Oh, that would be cool. I feel like most parents have that desire for grandkids. But you're like, hey, this brand depends on it. We need more generations.

[SM]: There's a lot at stake here.

[ES]: Yeah, he moved back to Denmark a little over a year ago with his wife and they're doing well.

[SI]: Hopefully we'll see him at one of the shows this year.

[ES]: I think he might be coming to the Chicago show.

Building Relationships in the Industry

[AW]: Another thing that I think is super unique about your brand, Erik, is that your products aren't specific to one manufacturer. You've built relationships with people in the industry and you get to go to whatever well you think would best suit each product. The result is a really diverse, well-rounded portfolio reflective of where pipes and pipe tobacco are today.

[SI]: Yeah, it's a snapshot of almost every manufacturing and packaging style, and that's pretty remarkable. Again, that's something you don't get with I don't think anybody else.

[SM]: It really gives you license to experiment and make sure you're getting the best-quality manufacturing for every product that you're releasing.

[SI]: There's something for everybody as well. Especially in the pipe line, in the last couple years, the addition of some of the Italian-produced series is a completely different aesthetic than the stuff that you've made in Denmark previously. You've got something appealing in the line for any preference.

[ES]: My whole family has always been in tobacco. We've never really been into making pipes or anything like that. My father did have a line of pipes as well, but it was made by somebody in Denmark, so I had to explore. I learned this whole pipe side of the business. I met Antoine from Chacom about 10, 15 years ago now, and he introduced me to Bruno Nuttens who's making our Pipe of the Year annually. It all escalated and it's just been a fun ride. It really has, and because it is a relatively small business, it's good to meet people and talk about projects.

[SI]: That is one of the best and coolest parts of this industry, in general, is that it's such a tight-knit group. Everybody has some kind of a relationship or business synergy with one another. Even on the retail side, who's distributing this brand and we buy that and they buy a brand that we distribute. All of the competition is so healthy and friendly and is in many ways interconnected.

[AW]: Yeah, we all have the same shared goals. It's no secret that pipe smoking is far less popular and has declined per capita since its heyday in the early 20th century, so having experts like yourself, Erik, and being able to partner with Cornell & Diehl and small, artisan workshops as well as Antoine, Chacom, Neerup, and others really shows that cohesiveness and shared goal to preserve this tradition.

[SM]: It's an industry where when somebody wins, everybody wins.

[AW]: That's a really good way of putting it.

[SM]: And because the hobby in general attracts great people, everybody's happy and passionate.

[SI]: People don't stay in this industry unless they love it.

[ES]: You have to have a passion for it.

Growing up in Tobacco

[SI]: Going back to your beginnings, Erik, you grew up in this industry from the time you were old enough to remember. We have actual books that document this, by the way, of baby Erik.

[ES]: In my father's book, yeah. They took me to my grandfather's factory for the first time when I was about eight years old, and that was on a Saturday because they worked half days on Saturdays at that time. It was an old four-story factory and they had pipe-tobacco production on the ground floor, and then on the second floor, I think they had cigar rolling, and the third floor was Oliver Twist. Then they had packaging on the top floor and I had to slip boxes from the top floor down to the ground floor, and that was pretty much my job.

At that time, it was common to have a factory in the back and usually several stories, and then a storefront, or retail shop, in the front. The building is still there. It's preserved. It's now apartments and I think ladies clothes or something like that, but my name is still there because I have the same name as my grandfather.

It's been all my life in the industry and I had a period going back to 2010, 2011, where I was in between things and I thought about trying something completely different and separate from this tobacco business. But then I thought, well, this is really my life and this is what I do. I need to continue this. That's when we came up with starting my own brand.

[SI]: That's awesome. Back to your early days for a moment, do you remember your first pipe or pipe-smoking experience?

[ES]: Yes. It was a Kriswill pipe.

[SI]: That's a nice first pipe.

[ES]: They had a pretty big pipe factory in the town of Kolding, and I don't remember the tobacco but the reason for me starting with a pipe was that I was 16 years old and my friends were smoking cigarettes. I came to my dad and asked, can I smoke cigarettes as well? And he said, no, you can smoke, but you have to smoke a pipe. So I said, alright.

[SI]: That's gonna be a rule in my household. Did you pick that Kriswill out or did he pick it for you?

[ES]: I think he gave it to me.

[SI]: It was one of his. That's so cool.

[AW]: That's really special.

Multi-Generational Family Business

[ES]: I have a really cool story, and I don't know if you guys have read about it, but Oliver Twist was something that my grandfather did for many years and he actually invented the little box and so forth. It sold mostly in Norway and Denmark, and then the company was later sold, probably about five years ago. They still have their factory in Odense. I think Swedish Match bought them. They bought a couple of companies in Denmark, but Oliver Twist was just a different product from other oral chewing tobacco.

A few months ago, the Gundersen family bought Oliver Twist and the factory from Swedish Match. I worked with George Gundersen doing Orlik. He was the president of Orlik Tobacco Company, and his family has also been in the tobacco business for three generations, and he was involved with pipe tobacco, of course. Then he had his own companies, making snus, and then they got out of that and bought Oliver Twist. It all comes back full circle. I sent him a nice note and congratulations on the purchase. So it all stays in the family.

[SI]: It's also remarkable that Max is in the business now too.

[ES]: Yes it is. When he was done with college at Appalachian State, he wasn't sure what he wanted to do. I told him that I'm friends with some of the people at Lane Limited in Atlanta, Georgia, so we went there and they liked him and hired him as a salesman. I said, look, you got your foot in the door and if it doesn't work out, you have something to put on your resume if you want to do something completely different. Now, almost 10 years later, he's still with the company.

[SI]: That's awesome.

[ES]: So, that's good. It makes me happy.

[SI]: Just the tradition of it, carrying the torch and being stewards of this thing that we love. It's great to see. You just don't see that kind of generational tradition in many other businesses today.

[ES]: No, you don't. We talked a little bit yesterday, Andy, about how things are coming back. You mentioned that pipe tobacco was mentioned in one New York Times article as being the trend for 2026.

[SI]: It seems like people are paying attention to the noise we've been making the last 20 years about this thing.

[SM]: Yeah, you go to pipe shows and you're seeing more and more younger people who just started smoking a pipe six months ago, or that it's their first show. It's really energizing to be around all those people who are new and excited, but also very clearly are taking it seriously, researching it, and are very engaged. It's very exciting.

[SI]: I started going to the Chicago show when I was like 22. At the time, there were not a lot of 22 year olds. Going now, I feel like it's a majority. That's been really fun to watch. I think that's one of the reasons why continuing to do thoughtful and interesting product development is one of the most important things in the business. The pipe-smoking community and the hobby, writ large, have lost so many brands over the years. Most of that was happening before this renaissance that we've seen in the last 20 years.

Compared to the choices that you had walking into a shop in the 1960s through the 1980s, up until the early 2000s where the internet really helped reinvigorate the interest and spread of information, there was a lot of stuff that went away and choices had become far more limited. I feel like there is a sense of duty for anybody that's still in the business now to be forward thinking and trying to make sure that we're still pushing the boundaries of innovation, whether it's something like the pipe-tobacco humidor or collaborations in tobacco that are interesting. I'm grateful, Erik, that you didn't decide to do another business.

[ES]: I think you guys also have a big say in the renaissance of pipe tobacco, from what you have put out on Cornell & Diehl and such. I think that's really wonderful.

[SI]: Sykes gets a lot of credit for saying, hey, the internet could really improve this thing. There was a lot of naysaying in the beginning, in the early days of the internet, and all kinds of industries. To look at where it's gotten now, it's true that all it takes is a few people to stick with it and believe in it.

[AW]: Yeah, it's a privilege to be able to do this.

Personal Stories in the Industry

[SM]: From my own personal story, when I started working at this company just about eight years ago, I had never seen anybody smoking a pipe. I didn't know pipe smoking was even still a thing. I showed up for the interview, and I was expecting there to be two little offices in a business complex with a few people shipping out of there. We did a tour of the whole building back then, and I was wondering, how do pipes and pipe tobacco sustain all of this?

Getting to see everything that we do, I thought it was interesting and wanted to try smoking a pipe. People were throwing tobacco at me to try. That enthusiasm was just so infectious. The comradery of it all and everybody being so generous with their tobaccos, and in some cases, even pipes, and being willing to share knowledge and really coach me into becoming a pipe smoker was amazing.

[SI]: One of us, one of us.

[SM]: I fell in love with the hobby and the people, and it's a great company and industry to work for.

[SI]: I think that's what keeps everybody in this business, too. In many ways, it doesn't feel like a business. It feels like we all are just playing around with the thing that we like.

[SM]: It's still sometimes hard to believe that this is my job. This is what I do.

[SI]: And good luck explaining it to distant relatives and anybody else.

[AW]: I've stopped trying. My family comes from a tobacco background.

[SM]: Yeah, you're multigenerational too.

[AW]: Acres and acres of tobacco farms. That was my great grandfather's thing and my grandfather, actually, was the lead mechanic for R.J. Reynolds for 30 years. The road that I grew up on was Tobacco Road. I never thought that this was gonna be the thing but it makes so much sense.

[SI]: Yeah. It wasn't the family business, but I still have my grandfather's pipes from after he passed. My obsession with them began when I was barely walking and talking. I remember when he was still with us, I had already been working for the company for a while and even before that I was already collecting. Almost every time I got a new pipe, he was the only guy that would care.

[SM]: My family's tobacco history is Marlboro Reds. I was about fourth generation for that. I have since moved on to much bigger and better things.

[AW]: Yeah, you've evolved. That's good.

[ES]: I have quite a few of my father's pipes, too, that I got when he passed away. One of 'em is actually one that was made by this guy Jørgen Larsen. I tell you, it's one of my favorite pipes. It's so good. It's gotta be at least 30 years old now. I just love it.

[SM]: All these pipes that we're smoking right now will outlive all of us. It's amazing.

[SI]: I can only hope that whether my boys choose to smoke or not, they treasure these pipes and keep just a couple of 'em.

C&D New Collaborations in the Works

One more thing. A little birdie told me that you spent some time in the factory yesterday with our mutual friend, Jeremy Reeves.

[ES]: Yes. I did, my good friend Jeremy and I talked about some new stuff. We talked about doing a new tin under Fathers, Friends & Fire and a new bulk tobacco as well. He promised me he would send me some samples, so that's exciting. Hopefully we will have it out sometime late in the year. I'm looking forward to it.

[SI]: You've also been able to see the development of Jeremy's stable of tobaccos, the machinery, and the production facility.

[ES]: I saw the factory for the first time maybe four or five years ago when you were at a different location. I thought to myself, they have a ways to go. But from that point to where they are today, it's just remarkable.

[SM]: Yeah, even now they're thinking about what's next, still evolving, improving, and growing.

[SI]: They're in the early stages, but what you saw yesterday, I'm sure we'll be able to talk about before too long. I'm just really excited to see what you'll be able to do with a little bit more control over certain things. It's just opening up a whole new playbook of possibilities.

[ES]: This company has a bright future. It really does.

[SI]: Is there anything you can tease or share with us about the accessory line that might be coming up?

[ES]: We don't have so much in the accessory line but we are having a new Pipe of the Year from Bruno Nuttens coming up, hopefully this spring. Then we do have a new limited-edition tin coming out later in the year, probably towards the fall as well.

[SI]: Lots to look forward to. Erik, thanks so much for stopping by.

[ES]: Thank you.